Love the comparison to "fire-insurance". As Bill Maher has noted, (and I've quoted) we've had "socialized" services, for a long time... I usually use police, fire, and library services as my examples, but this video talking about Medicare(which everyone agrees works quite well!), hits it on the head! Thanks, Coll.
Anonymous said…
I would be more than willing to, through my taxes, subsidizing public health care if we had a public that actually tried to take care of themselves. But subsidize fat people? smokers? couch-potatoes? bad drivers? drug addicts?... no thanks.
Until the government links a national health-care plan to mandatory fitness and correct eating - and I'm not sure I'd be willing to live under those conditions, even though I'm "already there" in terms of my own lifestyle - I just don't see how it can possibly be right for me (a vegan nonsmoker who exercises nearly 2 hours a day) to pay for some fat redneck who swills beer and watches television all day.
I'm frankly quite happy to see the whole thing dying in Washington.
Anonymous, you know as well as I do that your "argument" is a gross generalization. What about the thousands stricken with cancer or other diseases that have no relation to whether they are exercise or smoke? Some of the healthiest people I know have been stricken with cancer or heart attack. While I applaud your health efforts, there are many people who don't fall into the...ummm.. "categories" you've suggested.
Anonymous said…
Fair enough.
But you know, everyone knows life is "unfair", so it's really their responsibility to see to it that they earn enough money so that they can participate in the insurance system. Pretty simple.
No one forces anyone to party instead of studying, live like a slacker rather than working hard at a job where they can get ahead and make money, and invest their money in retirement planning, insurance and other financial instruments *before* allocating resources to big screen TVs and overpriced sectional sofas.
I'll bet a lot of "uninisured" have big-screen TVs. I don't, incidentally. I am insured, though... I am self-employed, incidentally, so I have to absorb the whole cost myself, which I do because it's a cornerstone of financial planning.
Beyond that, no one forces anyone into unhealthy choices, either. I certainly don't recall ever forcing someone to scarf down a burger and fries and wash it down with a Big Gulp - that's all voluntary.
Do accidents happen? They do... but is it reasonable to support 40 million throwaway lives to save a million who have been stricken regardless of their healthy choices? No, and it shouldn't even be an issue because those people should have sought insurance themselves.
Please don't try to spend my money for me, thanks.
Anonymous said…
So what we really need isn't "universal health care", we need a safety net for critical situations such as a prolonged and complex illness (cancer) or very involved surgeries (a liver transplant, say). I would add to this some kind of hospice care system for terminal illnesses.
For every cancer case you like to use as an example, though, there are many more cases of what amount to voluntary illnesses (lung cancer, liver diseases caused by alcoholism, coronary artery disease, and so on) which collectively are a much bigger basket of costs than involuntary ones (genetic heart disorders or valve problems, environmental oncogenic cancers, trauma and critical injury)... and I certainly DON'T see the need to pay for someone else's play.
Perhaos you should review the facts and think for yourself, GAV, rather than simply repeating a party line. That would save *you* from stupidity, fyi.
Anonymous Conservative: Open up your brain. Identify yourself. What kind of answer do you have to my 23 year old son, who this summer suffered a heart attack as a severe reaction to an Rx, and his insurance company refused to pay for his hospitalization because he didn't have a referral? (Apparently he should've scheduled his heart attack.)
And this is just one example of the many insidious practices of the for-profit insurance companies!
Let's fund universal health care by legalizing marijuana -- a $113 billion untaxed industry.
Thank you for this, Collin. I'm putting it up on my blog.
Anonymous is one of those conservatives who likes to sound superior, but just like the rest of the Republican party, he has no plan to reform healthcare. He's got his right wing talking points to keep him warm. The conservatives haven't worked their fear-mongering tactics like this since 9/11 and the unnecessary war in Iraq.
You go on and work out until you drop of a heart attack and then burn up that insurance money you've so expertly saved up for. Meanwhile, the rest of us will get back to REAL debate and discussion on the issue.
Anonymous said…
^Amen CK. I love how he accused me of spewing the party line when he's doing the right wing tap dance.
Well, I'm going to have to comment again....Anonymous1, how dare you! Many folks work really hard, save for insurance, but still can't get it, because they are told they have a "pre-existing condition"--I know, because it happened to me! Without my honey's insurance provided by his job, I would not have been covered for what turned out to be, a LIFE-SAVING operation! What if I'd been a single mom, or a widow? A single mom who works two jobs, or a widow who has lost a major part of her household income, surely is worthy of the same basic health care as anyone else. If you have any spiritual practice, Anonymous1, I'd urge you to meditate on this, or pray. The answer to whether we(the USA)should provide for all citizens or not, is clear: it's the thing a compassionate government that provides, does.
Anonymous said…
The Atlantic had a really important article about health care in America in the September issue.
I urge all of you to read it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care
Anonymous 3:57 - You might have your insurance canceled someday when your health insurance company decides you've committed fraud. It's called rescission, and it usually happens after you've been diagnosed with a serious expensive-to-treat medical condition. You can read about it in this Washington Post article.
I had open-heart surgery in May (about the cost of a Bentley Continental) and my insurance company (to whom I've only been paying premiums for about a year (I switched recently)... I almost feel sorry for them) for a condition which is clearly pre-existing (it's genetic), though it wasn't detected until April. My insurance company handled everything flawlessly, as did Piedmont's Fuqua Heart Center.
When Piedmont recommended 12 weeks of cardiac rehab beginning in July (another $20,000) the insurers didn't bat an eyelash.
My total out of pocket is capped at my deductible ($500) plus $3000... so $3500. Not bad for $200k worth of treatment.
While horror stories about evil, mean insurers are (sadly) true, they are extremely uncommon. Personally, I've never known anyone to have a problem.
I will also say that it was literally days between diagnosis and surgery, a reaction time not seen in nations with public health care.
In England I'd probably be scheduled for surgery next Spring.
Comments
As Bill Maher has noted, (and I've quoted) we've had "socialized" services, for a long time...
I usually use police, fire, and library services as my examples, but this video talking about Medicare(which everyone agrees works quite well!), hits it on the head!
Thanks, Coll.
Until the government links a national health-care plan to mandatory fitness and correct eating - and I'm not sure I'd be willing to live under those conditions, even though I'm "already there" in terms of my own lifestyle - I just don't see how it can possibly be right for me (a vegan nonsmoker who exercises nearly 2 hours a day) to pay for some fat redneck who swills beer and watches television all day.
I'm frankly quite happy to see the whole thing dying in Washington.
But you know, everyone knows life is "unfair", so it's really their responsibility to see to it that they earn enough money so that they can participate in the insurance system. Pretty simple.
No one forces anyone to party instead of studying, live like a slacker rather than working hard at a job where they can get ahead and make money, and invest their money in retirement planning, insurance and other financial instruments *before* allocating resources to big screen TVs and overpriced sectional sofas.
I'll bet a lot of "uninisured" have big-screen TVs. I don't, incidentally. I am insured, though... I am self-employed, incidentally, so I have to absorb the whole cost myself, which I do because it's a cornerstone of financial planning.
Beyond that, no one forces anyone into unhealthy choices, either. I certainly don't recall ever forcing someone to scarf down a burger and fries and wash it down with a Big Gulp - that's all voluntary.
Do accidents happen? They do... but is it reasonable to support 40 million throwaway lives to save a million who have been stricken regardless of their healthy choices? No, and it shouldn't even be an issue because those people should have sought insurance themselves.
Please don't try to spend my money for me, thanks.
For every cancer case you like to use as an example, though, there are many more cases of what amount to voluntary illnesses (lung cancer, liver diseases caused by alcoholism, coronary artery disease, and so on) which collectively are a much bigger basket of costs than involuntary ones (genetic heart disorders or valve problems, environmental oncogenic cancers, trauma and critical injury)... and I certainly DON'T see the need to pay for someone else's play.
Perhaos you should review the facts and think for yourself, GAV, rather than simply repeating a party line. That would save *you* from stupidity, fyi.
And this is just one example of the many insidious practices of the for-profit insurance companies!
Let's fund universal health care by legalizing marijuana -- a $113 billion untaxed industry.
Thank you for this, Collin. I'm putting it up on my blog.
You go on and work out until you drop of a heart attack and then burn up that insurance money you've so expertly saved up for. Meanwhile, the rest of us will get back to REAL debate and discussion on the issue.
GAV
Many folks work really hard, save for insurance, but still can't get it, because they are told they have a "pre-existing condition"--I know, because it happened to me! Without my honey's insurance provided by his job, I would not have been covered for what turned out to be, a LIFE-SAVING operation!
What if I'd been a single mom, or a widow?
A single mom who works two jobs, or a widow who has lost a major part of her household income, surely is worthy of the same basic health care as anyone else.
If you have any spiritual practice, Anonymous1, I'd urge you to meditate on this, or pray.
The answer to whether we(the USA)should provide for all citizens or not, is clear: it's the thing a compassionate government that provides, does.
I urge all of you to read it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200909/health-care
Anonymous 3:57 - You might have your insurance canceled someday when your health insurance company decides you've committed fraud. It's called rescission, and it usually happens after you've been diagnosed with a serious expensive-to-treat medical condition. You can read about it in this Washington Post article.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/09/07/AR2009090702455.html
MAG
When Piedmont recommended 12 weeks of cardiac rehab beginning in July (another $20,000) the insurers didn't bat an eyelash.
My total out of pocket is capped at my deductible ($500) plus $3000... so $3500. Not bad for $200k worth of treatment.
While horror stories about evil, mean insurers are (sadly) true, they are extremely uncommon. Personally, I've never known anyone to have a problem.
I will also say that it was literally days between diagnosis and surgery, a reaction time not seen in nations with public health care.
In England I'd probably be scheduled for surgery next Spring.