Thanks, Coll, for the reposting.I commented extensively at Franklin Abbott's post, earlier, at Facebook I'll just add this: When I was at a Pax Christi (Peace Christ)meeting, many months ago(before the whole sex-abuse crisis exploded again), I asked a rather progressive priest why the RC Church has not yet considered ordaining qualified women, and he said "The heirarchy won't listen." To which I said "They are not the Church--WE are the church. Us gathered here, feeding people at the shelters, gathering to protest war, to celebrate the Holy Spirit in all of us--this is the church. 'Church' means community." He seemed shocked by my beingindignant, but everyone there agreed with me.If this scandal does not destroy the RC Church, it may help it become again, what it currently, is not: relevant.
Anonymous said…
All organized religion should be dismantled. People should be allowed to believe and worship at their leisure without a massive organization trying to use its influence against others. Organized religion is at the root of most of the world's problems.
GAV--Respectfully disagree.... Back when I was what I called "a cheerful A-theist or "Non-Theist", I saw the world in just two ways:Dark/Light, and I was fond of saying exactly what you espoused here. Everyone CAN, if they wish, meditate/pray/worship, at home, or outside in nature, etc. Take away "organization", and you have unorganized, and I'd say dis-organized religion. The truth is, it takes "organization" to get things accomplished--granted, tremendous pain and suffering has been inflicted on many, due to the ABUSE OF POWER by many at the top of various religious organizations. But with organization, (and the inherent outreach), also comes the ability to actually accomplish good goals. The Pax Christi group to whom I belong, would not have the RESOURCES(a great space in which to gather for meetings; the ability to feed others, protest for peace, etc.) without the (ongoing) support of the RC Church.Interestingly, many RC churches do not allow Pax Christi to meet on-grounds, as some feel it is too "radical"(!) . We may well be, since we're actually attempting to follow Jesus Christ's actual teachings--that "Love your enemies", pacifist, left-leaning, radical stuff! ;)
Peace to you, GAV. :)
Anonymous said…
I get what you're saying Lisa but unfortunately man (and woman) is incapable of holding power and not eventually abusing or twisting it to their own means and ends. Religion can be followed and practiced with a machine behind it. It's thinking outside the box. We have thousands of years of being controlled by organized religion and trying to think of it in a different way is often difficult.
Excellent post Collin. I used to be a Catholic, now I think for myself. :) I believe what I've seen and what perpetuates the notion that we are all part of whatever God is and that leaves them all out, every one of the big names like Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha etc. I believe in love and not one thing more. I worship love. It's the only thing that makes miracles happen and it doesn't have a gender, face or denomination. It's power, the positive kind and the entire reason we are here with you Collin, having this dialogue. Much love to you all. :)
The Catholic Church has some big problems. What's sad is that most clergy are good people. I'm glad the world is speaking up, because the lives of young children are at stake.
GAV--We'll have to agree to disagree. I won't say any entity has to be dismantled,just because one desires it. GAV, I am, by definition,"out of the box.": *identify as Bisexual *activist for LGBTQ causes *Progressive politically *after 18+ years of being a "Cheerful A-theist", I decided to make a (joyful) choice to celebrate the "mystery" of my faith. To participate in Mass, etc. My way "in",was through Pax Christi. I support: *Women Priests movement *Full inclusion of LGBT, including ordination of qualified candidates. *Optional-only celibacy Many who enjoy therituals of mass, and feel the Holy Spirit that Sinead O'Connor speaks of in this video, are very committed to that, while still holdingviews the "Church" does not (yet!) agree with. Peace, bro. :) Val--"My God is too big for any one religion."--I agree with this, and I bet you do, too. :)
Comments
I'll just add this:
When I was at a Pax Christi (Peace Christ)meeting, many months ago(before the whole sex-abuse crisis exploded again), I asked a rather progressive priest why the RC Church has not yet considered ordaining qualified women, and he said "The heirarchy won't listen."
To which I said "They are not the Church--WE are the church. Us gathered here, feeding people at the shelters, gathering to protest war, to celebrate the Holy Spirit in all of us--this is the church. 'Church' means community."
He seemed shocked by my beingindignant, but everyone there agreed with me.If this scandal does not destroy the RC Church, it may help it become again, what it currently, is not:
relevant.
GAV
Back when I was what I called "a cheerful A-theist or "Non-Theist", I saw the world in just two ways:Dark/Light, and I was fond of saying exactly what you espoused here.
Everyone CAN, if they wish, meditate/pray/worship, at home, or outside in nature, etc.
Take away "organization", and you have unorganized, and I'd say
dis-organized religion.
The truth is, it takes
"organization" to get things accomplished--granted, tremendous pain and suffering has been inflicted on many, due to the ABUSE OF POWER by many at the top of various religious organizations.
But with organization, (and the inherent outreach), also
comes the ability to actually accomplish good goals.
The Pax Christi group to whom I belong, would not have the RESOURCES(a great space in which to gather for meetings; the ability to feed others, protest for peace, etc.) without the (ongoing) support of the RC Church.Interestingly, many RC churches do not allow Pax Christi to meet on-grounds, as some feel it is too "radical"(!) .
We may well be, since we're actually attempting to follow Jesus Christ's actual teachings--that "Love your enemies", pacifist, left-leaning, radical stuff! ;)
Peace to you, GAV. :)
GAV
The Catholic Church has some big problems. What's sad is that most clergy are good people. I'm glad the world is speaking up, because the lives of young children are at stake.
GAV, I am, by definition,"out of the box.":
*identify as Bisexual
*activist for LGBTQ causes
*Progressive politically
*after 18+ years of being a "Cheerful A-theist", I decided to make a (joyful) choice to celebrate the "mystery" of my faith. To participate in Mass, etc.
My way "in",was through Pax Christi.
I support:
*Women Priests movement
*Full inclusion of LGBT, including ordination of qualified candidates.
*Optional-only celibacy
Many who enjoy therituals of mass, and feel the Holy Spirit that Sinead O'Connor speaks of in this video, are very committed to that, while still holdingviews the "Church" does not (yet!) agree with.
Peace, bro. :)
Val--"My God is too big for any one religion."--I agree with this, and I bet you do, too. :)
Christine--I agree. Indeed!